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HI !Friendica Support,

I've been recently reminded of the ambiguity of the dislike reaction feature. @Spencer added a dislike on a post of mine with a negative tone. Then he felt the need to explicit the meaning of the dislike in a comment.

I'd like to remove this feature for 3 reasons:
  • No other protocol supports it.
  • It's too ambiguous and negative with harassment potential.
  • It would visually clear some space in the post link list for people not using it like me.

What do you think?

2 people don't like this

The Psychology of Social Media: Why We Like, Comment, and Share Online #

Emoji is just the same like dislike, or like or anything else. Why not just leave the comments, so everybody who wants to express something can write?

Every decisioin we do in life isn't always the right one. So why not admit that we mabye made the wrong decision?
If the Like/Dislike/Emoji is user configured, everybody can decide for themself and I think there are lot people that want a different "presentation".

The Friendica "starring" feature isn't connected to third party apps, like Tobias mentioned already.

I don't get how you arrive at that conclusion.

But then, if you remove it also remove the "like" button. It has the same role as the "dislike" button. And it fuels the drug / gamification in the social media.

No, in contrary. The API function to "star" an item is doing exactly this. And this function is widely used by Twidere and co.

Isn't # also supporting it?

If I recall correctly it is optional there.

So if I break my leg, and someone dislikes it it is negative? For me that rather sounds positive that someone dislikes me having a broken leg. On the other hand if someone likes it, that would be negative from my point of view.

It's a possible interpretation, but if the Dislike wasn't available, I believe you would be less likely to feel that way.

If you change the meaning of the buttons, that is transmitted to other networks, where they still name it "like/dislike" you could change the statement completely. in the worst case.

Max doesn't like this.

Myself I like upvote/downvote the best.

Upvote means "I appreciate you posting this, great content, I agree" and such. Downvote means "Ugh, this is not for me".

It is feedback on content, not emotional expression. For that there are comments.

Also this way likes/dislikes can be used for further processing. E.g. if I downvote a post, don't subscribe me to it or maybe even hide it from my stream. If I like it then subscribe me for activity on it.

Why? "I like that you broke your leg" keeps the meaning regardless of the existing of the word "dislike".

I use the Like button to mean a read receipt when I don't have anything to add, this wouldn't work as much.

How many people (re)discovered the Dislike feature thanks to this thread?

I wouldn't think of people aren't aware of this feature. Before claiming people are not using it, you should have some heuristics about it.

And I dont think that zynism will help here.

I can't check right now, but I will make the prediction that the dislikes on this thread alone amount for 90% of the total amount of dislikes I've received on my node for the last year.

I'm not talking about your node only. Don't think that one single user node is a good statistic.

Even if my node is among the top 25% most active Friendica nodes?

Dislike hast its right to exist, same as Like. See yourself on this example ;)

Of course you're free to understand a "like" as its first degree meaning even if the context shows there was no other possible interaction, but at this point I believe it's a "you" problem we can't fully accommodate. Incidentally I believe emoji reactions would be a better solution for you in this case.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)

Because of the extremely limited range of available reactions. and the unlikelihood of such a meaning. Both combined means that you can safely assume good faith from everyone who added a "Like" on your broken leg post.

Which means even if someone actually meant to show they enjoy your predicament, they couldn't adequately convey it with a "Like" only.

For me downvoting always felt as content quality feedback and nothing else. But I suppose someone might see it differently.

And on the other hand do we really need this on social networks? In places like Reddit this has practical function of filtering and refining the best content. Not perfect, can be misused but it has a purpose.

But isn't social networking different? What is the point of downvoting (or disliking) here? The authors here are generally not in search of truth or public approval, they just express themselves. Most probably don't mind criticism (I certainly don't) but what message do dislikes convey? That someone just disliked my cat or political statement? What should I do with this information? Be upset? Go dislike something back? Stop being myself?

This probably has value for professional bloggers but not ordinary people.

Why assume "good faith" in a like but not a dislike? I really don't get the distinction between the two that you are implying.

Both have a very simple meaning, why assume "good faith" for the one meaning but not the other.

Because it isn't the same meaning? Like has a positive tone, dislike has a negative tone.

Again, if you can't grasp that a specific word can have multiple meanings depending on context, while also having a primary acception with a definite positive or negative tone, there is nothing meaningful I can add to this conversation. "Like" and "Dislike" are different words with different meaning with different tones. The difference in tone sets the difference in usage as well.

In the four years I've been using Friendica with the dislike feature, nobody has commented on one of my post to clarify a "Like" they added because they weren't sure of the reception. However it happened last month with "Dislike".

There is a difference between the two cases and I'm running out of arguments to help you see it.

Concerning the "harassment potential": I've got the opinion that you cannot solve social problems with technology.
It's true but technology can still enable or damper negative behaviors. Twitter's all-public centralized model definitely enabled mass pile-on, while Mastodon's choice to not support quote-boost makes it slightly harder to add a snide remark to a boosted toot. Sometimes it's all it takes to prevent a toxic behavior from scaling/spreading.

This is a similar situation: removing the "Dislike" button wouldn't solve online animosity, but it would remove an easy one-click outlet for it, increasing the effort threshold for its expression.

Not all, but there are such postings.

No, it is not meaningless. It is a perfect example of how the dis/like buttons can be used.

"in the larger scheme". This means it is statistically insignificant. It doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific treatment. Its very low likelihood makes it irrelevant regarding the dislike feature removal question.

The activity in this thread demonstrates that there is no consensus on this topic. In my opinion this means that we shouldn't remove this functionality.

There is no consensus to remove that feature. Do you see some compromise?

Also not a single dislike used :)

Maybe your feeling is not a better argument than the feeling of somebody else? Maybe you can't see you are making differences, where others don't feel or see differences because you put a very small spotlight on some examples, instead they try to see the whole picture?

If it is all about feelings on some not explained actions, we shouldn't even think about using emojis or anything else. If we want to prevent misunderstanding, we should eliminate every action except comments. And even then there are still misunderstandings, because people write and people read and there are always interpretations you can't control.

So why not go the configurable way and let everybody decide it if is displayed or not?

This never had to do with my own feelings. The removal idea was actually sparked by @Spencer ’s feelings which are shared by other people in this thread.

So this isn’t personal, but it is about feelings and how prominent they are among Friendica users. Tobias’ are very specific and probably can’t be catered to by a solution that assumes meaning depends on context, which it generally does.

Although this wouldn’t prevent harassment through dislikes.

Maybe, but the final decision still shouldn't be based on other niche topics.

I've created a week-long public poll to synthesize the community's opinions. I've included as many outcomes that I could think of:

Please add all your preferred choices.

Voted for "user setting" and by that I mean users being able to turn on and off both the button and counts. It should still work on protocol level, just not showing if disabled.

Node admin should control the default. Default works for anonymous accounts.

OMG .. can't believe you are doing it again. Because of exactly this behavior people left the project.

Please ! Share this poll everyhwere where Friendica users are. Friendica developers, Friendica Support, a Blog Article and via Hashtag, so it will be distributed everywhere people are interested in Friendica.


Concerning different possible configuration options, these ones would be possible and had a completely different impact:
- Don't show the "dislike" button, but display received dislikes
- Don't show the "dislike" button and ignore received dislikes
- Don't show the "dislike" button and count received dislikes as likes
- Show the "dislike" button and ignore received dislikes
- Show the "dislike" button and count received dislikes as likes

I most certainly didn't think about counting received dislikes as likes. This crosses for me a very weird line about changing the meaning of a received message.

I'm for keeping it. Its the nearest thing to a poll we have. There is also an API for dislikes which I use. So if you change the code please tell the client programmer in time.

..then i need a user setting for switching emojis off.
I just do not want to see them, it's alienware and destroys my eyes.

Yes, this is much needed to.
They are super ugly :)

There is no escape from Unicode emoji though 🙃

Cmon .. you want to change something, so you should have an interest to make it public. The post is public but if I ask tomorrow some random friendica users, if they know something about what happens in the Friendica Admin forum, you really want to tell us all, that they will know?

I'm sorry this is not a place where a lot people will notice it. So your secret poll isn't something that should decide changes that could be a big impact for all users. Please quit playing dumb with us.

I'm out for today. This is so ridiculous and childish.

@Hypolite Petovan @hoergen on Friendica

Hey guys, without having any experience with such a situation i would say, this support-forum is the best place to publish the poll.
Here in the forum you find exactly those users, who are interested in issues like this. And you reach all of them, regardless whom they are following.

What could be done is another separate post here with hashtags. But that's it, isn't it?
Any public post will fade away in the gobal timeline and reaches only that users, who are already following Hypolite.

At this point a pinned post on top of the forum would be great.

Can @Steffen K9 🐰 can pin a post in the support forum?

So don't transmit them as like/dislike since obviously it's not the same meaning... 🤦

I thought you just wanted to change the label but keep the same message structure.

Dislike is a valid actitivystreams2 activity: Other ActivityPub systems might implement it in the future.

@Michael Vogel mentioned it as well and I crossed it out from the list of reasons I wanted to remove it from Friendica but maybe the edit doesn't propagate to the forum because I don't own the post anymore.